Off gassing help

Roasting theory, roast curves, and general questions as well.

Off gassing help

Postby thaxPDX » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:11 pm

So I'm very new to home roasting and am still stumbling plesently in the dark :). The goal of home roasting (I use the popcorn popper method) for me is to make the best cup I can for the least amount of money. After read about the use of valve bags I've decided that I should be capturing the benefits of the off gasing that results from fresh roasted coffee. In an effort to not spend more money on bags I'm trying to come at this from a more DIY approach.

So my question: I have a wine bottle rubber vacume stopper (the kind with the pump) and was wondering if I could put my freshly roasted and cooled beans into a cleaned out beer bottle and then vacume out the oxygen. This would leave a vacume for the beans to then fill with CO2. Am I correct in this thinking? Has anyone tried this?
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby GenericMale » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:23 pm

I think the intent is to allow purging of oxygen which reacts with the beans so anything that achieves this is good.

On a related thing I've always thought it might be worth looking into bleeding the oxygen out by pumping CO2 into a container instead of worrying about sucking oxygen out. Some of the beer DIY sites had a plastic cap with a CO2 gas fitting on it that fits a 2 liter bottle. They sell for about 12-15 dollars most of the time. When you want to carbonate beverages like juice etc you pour them into a 2 liter bottle. You then squeeze the bottle a bit to flatten most of the air out, tighten the cap, and then pressurize it with CO2. Since CO2 is heavier than air pumping it up with CO2, squeezing it out slightly, and then pumping it up again a little more would seem to accomplish the same thing. I havent actually tried this yet since I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference.

I already own one of the caps though and use it to carbonate juices sometimes with alcohol when mixing up fruity "cocktails" and punches for parties instead of using carbonated water or sodas.
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby JeffStickney » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:57 am

If you are making popcorn popper sized batches, you really don't need to be that concerned with long term storage. A batch that small is likely gone within a week- well before it has any chance to go stale.

As for the beer accessories, they are designed to hold the gas in and keep the beverage pressurized. For coffee, you want to allow most of the gas to escape.

I just use a mason jar. They are designed to seal under vacuum rather than pressure. The beans outgas the CO2, the CO2 displaces oxygen, (CO2 is heavier so it "sinks" pushing oxygen out of the way) the lid allows the pressure to escape, and the lid (and the pressure barrier if the coffee is fresh) keeps air from entering.

Is it good enough for long-term storage?- probably not, but no home roaster wants to drink old, stale coffee.
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby GenericMale » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:27 am

My thought with the co2 attachment was to squeeze out air, inject co2, push out air/co2, add co2 but not enough to put under pressure.. mainly to just displace a leave some of the bottle crushed slightly.

As said though this is more for longer storage...
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby butch burton » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:44 am

Off gassing will occur what ever container you use. I do about 2.5# per roast in my drum. I put them in those handy zip lock bags - tear off a piece of note paper to ID the beans - short memory me - and then sometimes I seal it up and the next day - the bag is bloated if I seal it and not if I don't.

If I absolutely can not wait and grind the beans for coffee just out of the roaster - try it some time - the coffee will change in the cup before it cools. The first swig is not pleasant but oh boy is something going on. Moral to the story - wait at least overnight to taste the coffee and not the gases still in the bean. Even with the funky not off gassed flavors still beats hell out of the grado sold by supermarket as freshly roasted varietal coffee. Was in store when owner of the roasted coffee distributor - we talked for a moment - asked him about shelf life for roasted beans - he keeps them roasted in his warehouse for up to 18 months. Can u believe - wow.

Zip lock bags work well IMHO and they are CHEEEEEP.
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby Faunley » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:25 pm

I am also very new to home roasting coffee but have taken your exact question to heart. I am using vacuvin brand stoppers and pump with brown glass beer bottles. Though the internet is apt to discredit the vacuvin system as not pulling enough of a vacuum to actually prevent oxidation in wines, I imagine, as you have, that by removinging as much of the oxygen-rich air as possible and then allowing the beans to refill the bottle with CO2, some preservative effect must be gained. However, as for the vacuvin stopper acting as a CO2 release valve, I have my doubts. I took the stopper and put the end that goes into the bottle in my mouth, blowing out as I imagine the CO2 would do from within the bottle. I found that quite a bit of pressure is required for air to pass outward through the stopper, much more than I imagine the CO2 creates within the bottle. This is likely the biggest drawback of this proposed method. The bag and tin-style valves are very passive devices (allowing air pressure to equalize between the inside of the bag or tin and the outside world) while the vacuvin system is designed (in theory) to actively create and maintain a strong pressure gradient. Thus it is not likely well suited to allowing freshly roasted beans to off gas. However, after the initial CO2 release (first three days or so?), it may be a useful means of preserving beans mid-to-long term (as others in this thread have said.) For now I am using a tin like the one available in the SM store for freshly roasted beans and then the vacuvin for storing beans I will not brew within a week. Thoughts?
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby sisko » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:08 pm

You can use a bung and an air lock. Both together cost about $3 at a wine making supplies store. These are secured on top of a vessel of fermenting wine to keep oxygen out but allow the co2 to escape. In my opinion that for coffee it is not necessary to first flush the oxygen out . The co2 will do that. You will need to modify the lid of a jar to fit the bung into it. It is kind of like a large rubber cork and the airlock fits into a hole drilled in it. Ask at the wine making supply how to use it.
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Re: Off gassing help

Postby jayz2949 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:33 pm

Unless you are anxious for a small project, drop $20 and have 3 tins w/valves shipped. You roast small batches and have access to awesome greens...keep it fresh and those tins do the job. Wipe them out if you want, just do not wash them

Enjoy!!
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