Manzano Process Experiment

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Manzano Process Experiment

Postby schooley » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:58 pm

This is a unique experiment in coffee processing methods. Wet Process, Pulp Natural, and Natural Dry processing methods are used for a small lot of coffee all of the same varietal, from the same plot of land, and harvested on the same day. There is a clear progression of flavors and characteristics shown in the cup and it is a great opportunity to see how process affects not just the cup, but roasting as well.

Link to coffee: http://bit.ly/bG4cog

There are subtle differences that are interesting to note while roasting this coffee, like the color gradation of the silverskin in the crease of the bean in each of the different processes, or the beans resistance to the first crack and even the sound of the crack: a deep popping sound in the washed to a more crackling sound in the natural dry.

A few experiments that would be fun to try with this set:

1. Roast each process for the same amount of time and with the same amount of input or adjustment on each roast. Note how each process progresses to and through first crack and the final roast development of each coffee: any variation in the finished roast color, bean size, bean surface development, flavor development, etc.

2. Roast each to the same level (City+ preferably). What are the differences in the cup? How do the characteristics of the coffee change with the different processes?

3. Do 2 or 3 different roast levels of each process, note how roasting levels change the characteristics of each coffee. Which process tastes better at a lighter/darker roast level?

Please share your results, folks. We will have continued discussion on these coffees here.
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby just plain Maria » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:44 am

Here is Tom's video on differences in the roasting of the Manzano coffees.
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby chaffbooger » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:16 pm

so, i just finished roasting all 3 processes at both City and Full City. They were roasted in a Behmor. The City roast has been resting at almost a full day now, and the FC was roasted this AM.
After roasting (same roast), the visual evenness of the roast increases from Wet to Dry, with Wet being the most uneven looking and Dry looking more consistent.
As Tom's video points out, the silverskin is much more yellow with the Wet process and darkens as it gets to Pulp Natural, and goes dark w/ the Dry. Why is that? Is it because the dry process would've darkened the clinging fruit when drying?
I am going to have an amateur hour cupping tomorrow at my apartment with some friends, so will give an update once we have a few slurps and try and find flavor differences.
This is a great experiment, thanks El Manzano and SM!
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby schooley » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:00 pm

Awesome, CB. One thought that I have is that the chaff/silverskin is darker is that there is a greater presence of material for browning (sugars, enzymes) left during the dry process. Can't wait to hear your cupping results.
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby Sweet Maria's » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Pasted this from the mail list so we can respond to it here...

>I just ordered the El Salvador Manzano Process Experiment and eagerly await
>completing the experiment in my cup.
>I know that processing is supposed to be the second most important factor
>influencing flavor (over origin) but I'm already leaning toward it being
>just as important as origin. The only other coffee I remember getting two
>processes from the same lot was the Koratie DP/WP and the difference was
>huge. >Now I'm just trying to figure out how to roast this in such a way as to not
>introduce another variable. I'm thinking of using my IR2 to roast three
>1/4lb batches to precisely the same roast level (probably C+) and then doing
>1/2lb batches in the B1600 the same way. Problem is that neither of those
>roasters are good for back to back batches. I might just have to break the
>rules on this one. Any thoughts or ideas? >Ivan

I think you are right - process favors trump varietal flavor and other qualities in coffee because of origin. I think Manzano shows that it's more than just an overlay of process flavor on top of other qualities. For example, the acidity in the Pulped Natural and the Natural is definitely muted ... so process is affecting acidity or at least the way it is perceived.

I would definitely try to roast them all the same, and think the IR2 with some cooling time in between is best. But check out the video about appearance of the roasted coffee too - the chaff color really affects how you perceived the darkness. I am going to paste this over to the forum thread on Manzano so we can track the feedback once people have roasted and tasted it...

The idea behind this whole Manzano thing is to try to get a grip on that relation between process flavors and origin tastes. I have used the term "origin taste" as an umbrella including both the agricultural factors (varietal, soil, climate, etc --- coffee on the tree) AND coffee processing. The final result of coffee as we receive it combines these 2 factors and it accounts for both agriculture and the cultural/historical factors that (to some degree) determine which type of processing is done in a particular growing region. Anyway, I like this idea of "thinking out loud" - communally discussing the influence of process on taste. Looking forward to comments posted here by you all. --- Tom
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby BoldJava » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:28 am

The idea behind this whole Manzano thing is to try to get a grip on that relation between process flavors and origin tastes. I have used the term "origin taste" as an umbrella including both the agricultural factors (varietal, soil, climate, etc --- coffee on the tree) AND coffee processing. The final result of coffee as we receive it combines these 2 factors and it accounts for both agriculture and the cultural/historical factors that (to some degree) determine which type of processing is done in a particular growing region. Anyway, I like this idea of "thinking out loud" - communally discussing the influence of process on taste. Looking forward to comments posted here by you all. --- Tom


Oh cwap, this post pushed me over the edge. I have had those three coffees in my cart, like 7 times. I have greens out the ears and don't need another single bean. Yet...

I pulled the trigger. Can't resist the learning that is sure to be involved. Thanks (to you and the farmer) for the extra effort to continue to encourage me to learn.

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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby milknmycoffee » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:15 pm

Curiosity got the best of me....and I ordered some as well!

I will do a side by side cupping with some family members and post the results.

Thanks to SW's and the folks at both Manzano and CuatroM Single Origin Coffees for making this unique opportunity available. This is going to be really interesting....
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby txcowgirl » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:00 am

Sounds like a neat experiment, I ordered mine today, so will post results as soon as coffee gets here and I get it roasted.
Texas--it's a whole 'nuther country.
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby milknmycoffee » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:18 pm

Glad so many people will be posting their results on this thread....should be very interesting :)
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Re: Manzano Process Experiment

Postby Emilio » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:53 pm

Couldn’t resist to jump in this conversation...

It’s really incredible to see how this discussion is developing, great opinions, already 320 views..... Sweet!!!

I really want to thank Tom and Chris (T & C) for showcasing this experimental coffees and giving all of us the opportunity to have an open discussion on this forum.

From the origin side of this discussion this is really an awesome opportunity to hear from all of you. I keep telling T & C... I am so glad this coffees landed on the right hands....

Actually the planning for this experimental microlot began back in 2008. If you have all noticed, the amount of information T & C have shared with everyone about the coffee is very broad. From the Brix % on mucilage the day it was picked, the percentages of ripeness on the beans, the days it was on the patio, days it was on the warehouse, date it was hulled, etc.... all this took some planning... Chris Davidson got on board in 2008 on the planning as well and for the 09-10 harvest we did the trials... We actually also did a few more like this one... This one though, focused on the processes...

Actually when I was putting all this together, all I could hope was that we find someone who really got into it... I’m definitely convinced we knocked on the right door....

So... regarding this discussion.... Something great to find out would be, what happened to the sugars through out the processes.... the Brix % on the cherries was 21 back when they where harvested... Probably would be nice to test with a Brix Refractometer the % on a shot of espresso on all three coffees, roasted at the same degree.... Let see what happened to that sugar.... Anyone got a refractometer?
Just thinking.....

Glad to be part of this discussion.... Cannot wait to hear more on these coffees....

Emilio.
Last edited by Emilio on Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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